Questions and Answers about Passive Aggressive behaviors

Dear Nora, after our skype call on saturday evening, and after reading your book Recovering from Passive Aggression, I feel full of tools to make a positive change in my relationship with my passive aggressive partner. It is a great relief to know that now when he says something aggressive to me, or when he gives me the silent treatment. I know how to respond!. I already managed to stop letting him accuse me or blame me for things I couldn’t control. Thank you so much for your widsom. Greetings from Buenos Aires. J.

I’ve been getting your PA infor. for the last 2 yrs & I’ve recently noticed how you are trying to teach the many of us w/PA spouses how to live w/them in spite of their “horrible treatment”.  I recently received my divorce which took 2 yrs. due to his constant manipulation of the system; we had been married for 33 yrs.  While I complement you on your advice & wisdom on how to “help” the many of us who have been saddled w/this problem through marriage, I’m not sure how helpful it can be when the PA person deems it his “right” to behave in this fashion.  I do believe we have found ourselves in this situation because the majority of us came from some type of “abusive” family relationship already & although there might have been some type of “red flag” while dating; we had become so used to this during our childhood that we simply had learned to ignore or overlook some actions/behaviors as simply “that’s life” or normal.  Unfortunately, we later learn it isn’t normal, but by then there may be children or others to think about instead of just heading for the “exit”.  This info. may be helpful to those who really believe they are still in “love” w/the PA spouse, although, I have to ? if any of us really have experienced true love in this lifetime at all.  I believe most PA spouses are physically abusive only because they have such a lack of respect for “humans” already & will do almost anything to get their way.  How do you “heal” while still married or living w/the PA since they are in a constant state of “denial” of their behavior or what effect it has on those who are suppose to be “closest” to them.  I stayed w/my PA for the sake of our child, but now I see how damaged she is & how she has little or no interest in dating again.  Her lst serious boyfriend turned out to be abusive & I blamed myself.  She saw my husband attack me only once, but when I spoke w/her about her boyfriend & running from these types of people she said to me “but you stayed”.  I wanted  to scream since I believed up until that time she had “saw or heard nothing”.  I was dead wrong!  She was 14 when that happened & 21 when her boyfriend of 6 mo. had hurt her.  I didn’t want to tell her that I was going to leave her dad as soon as she finished high school, but when she received a scholarship to one of this country’s finest academies I didn’t leave because I knew her college yrs would be like living in a “pressure cooker” & a divorce would have been too much for her to deal with.  Now that I am divorced & her’s & mine relationship is starting to heal, I feel it is my job to teach her about what a true “loving marriage relationship” should look like.  I don’t mean by doing this to demean her father; he has already done this to himself just by his “outrageous & hurtful” behavior he displayed while going through our divorce.  She has told me the “hurtful & denegrating words” he told her about me after I initiated the divorce; I wasn’t surprised one bit since I’d been living w/this secret for 33 yrs by myself.  Never once have I said anything to her about our life together except to say “what you saw that day wasn’t the lst or 2nd time it had happened”, but she has seen & heard lst hand from the horse’s mouth what he is really all about.  I already knew from experience that he would show his true colors to the outside world after I left him; he didn’t disappoint.  He has destroyed all relationships from his childhood & on.  He will die alone.  When I originally told him if he didn’t go for counseling that there didn’t stand a chance that I would even consider staying & saying that even if he went to counseling, I still wouldn’t guarantee I would stay, he said “I won’t go because their going to blame me for everything”……………I wonder Why!  I didn’t have an answer for him, but we’ll never know.
Yes, Nora as you repeated have said in your “blog”, I have always believed his problem originated during his childhood, but for someone to go through life constantly blaming the one who “tried to trust” him enough to marry him…there is no excuse for his repeated hurtful behavior to destroy the best thing that ever happend to him!

Dear Offstart:  I congrat. you on making one of the hardest decisions in life; leaving a long term marriage.  I know how long & hard I thought about it even while still trying, hoping & even begging God to help me some how still save a “bad marriage”.  I know how that sounds, but I believe anyone in this position goes through the same thing.  You obviously took your marriage vows seriously or you would have been gone long  ago.  I will warn you while you will find yourself much better off  mentally & healthwise over the long haul; your life during the divorce process from a PA man will be hell!  Please do whatever you can to keep yourself focused, calm & remember life will get better. I remember about 1 yr. into the divorce I started to cry one day & didn’t stop crying for weeks.  It dawned on me finally I hadn’t cried in almost 20 yrs.  My parents both died from long drawn out illness’s, I suffered an accident which permently injured me & had to quit working in a career I loved & kept me sane all w/o shedding a tear.  My now  ex’s behavior got even worse when I really needed to count on him’; I learned you can’t ever count on a PA man for anything. I finally feel human again & really welcome my emotions………long ago buried.  He is still the same angry man still trying to get me & blaming me for “breaking up our family”.  My advice keep conversations short, the little phone contact the better, but do everything by email & keep them filed. Finally, read, read & read to understand how you found yourself meeting/marrying this type of person & learning how to heal from this; it takes a lot of forgiving……yourself & others You need to learn the ”red flags” that will show up while dating & when they start to usually present themselves in any future relationships you should choose to enter.  Good Luck, Hon!  I wish you the best. 

Please can someone point out what the “red flag” warning signs are?  I was married to a PA man for 26 years.  I separated from him a year ago and I am still in recovery.  I never understood what was really going on in my marriage but nothing was ever resolved and I would always be the one to make up with him because I was so fed up of the silent treatment. My husbands behaviour actually got worse and worse and he began to fly into rages over the tiniest thing …. I knew that what he was raging at was not the real issue but I could never find out what he really was angry about because he would not open up to me.  He always let me down , came home late when he should have been early,,, came in early when he was going to be late… forgot the shopping I asked him to pick up…. forgot to tell me he would be late home (this only required a mobile text message)… Bought me a deep fat fryer for a Christmas present when I had asked for a silver locket!… Bless!!!.. Married to this man was a cold and lonely place…. I am so much happier now that I live on my own.  I am terrified of meeting a man like this again though and I think it is difficult to know if they are PA because my husband was very charming and kind when I met him… typical ‘no problem’ man……  How willl I know ?  Help?

First time for me commenting.  I have been married 25 yrs.  I spent all of 2011 facing the fact that my husband is PA and discussing the A-Z about that with him.  He made promises to change but cannot.  His mother was PA, his daughter may be and his grandson (9) has been diagnosed with ODD (a precursor to PA).  So, last week I let him know I will stay – but as friends only because he is allergic to anyone who has the title of mom or wife.  Well, you would think I let him out of jail.  He has been so upbeat, helpful, happy, talkative, friendly and I am just stunned.  I let him know I will not allow him to control me, talk mean to me, have attitude with me and treat me in a demeaning manner.  So, we will see how long this lasts.  I also let him know it this truce as friends with benefits does not work, I will move out.  I also have to add that after loosing my will to live and living in a depression for 25 years, I really did not see what other option I had.  I am one who is still crying over what we could have/should have had.  He is a professional, works hard, everyone loves him, has lots of friends, no vices and presents a great appearance.  No one knows about this except his brother, sister in law, son and daughter in law.  Now I have to figure out a new way to live.  This has not been a fun 1/4 century by any means.  I am still reeling from this change.  I hope things go well.  I also manage his practice (since 1985) so my job is with him.  Ugh!  Thanks, J

I don’t want anyone to think the name is related to the contents of the post.  I am helping a close friend who did not want her name used.  

I am wondering why the w/benefits.  I”m assuming it means “sex”  Sex is so emotional for women; this is the one thing I would consider as “non negotiable”.  I couldn’t even consider the thought of sex w/my ex when I realized how much of my life had been wasted w/him.  I still love sex…………just not with him.  I, too, was extremely depressed living like this for 33 yrs.  It was amazing that when I finally said “enough is enough” & he moved out….my depression left with him.  Good Luck!  I also loved being married, but he was not & never going to be the one.  As Oprah says “Love does not Hurt”.

The above post is about me, Lyndsay, not Jmlebow.  Sorry the wrong name has still not been corrected as she has asked.

Yup, it just happened again.  I wonder why the site keeps messing up?

Thanks for your comments.  I rely on books and reading posts to help me cope and find support.  I don’t feel comfortable sharing the details with anyone I know.  Yes, I also feel my life has been wasted with him, although there were some great times and experiences, yet quickly extinguished by his covert abuse.  If I said “no more” I would be shown the door and the locks would be changed.  Not an option for me right now.  A couple years ago, during a conversation I made the comment; “Oh, he loves her, but he’s not in love with her and my husband said “What’s the difference”.  Needless to say, my first thought was “oh oh”.  Little did I know that he could not associate either option to me.  Now, I wonder why it took me so long to realize that. L

Hi Goldy55,  Thank you so very much for sharing this very very helpful information.  So far the reading I have done have given me pause after just about every paragraph as I see my life in the pages.  As for a divorce, when I mentioned it about 5 years ago, way before I had a clue of what the issues really meant, I was told “You can leave with what you came with, NOTHING.”  
Interesting, my mom and I never got along either.  She is semi-narcissistic.    She wants me to stay with him because I send her a check every month to help out and she does not want that benefit to stop.  No, I don’t have anyone to talk to that understands or even knows all the details.  I choke up when I think about sharing because I feel like the “stupid” one for getting into and staying in this marriage.  I will write more later.  Thanks, L

Hi Goldy,  Wow!  Thanks so much for sharing.  Interesting how having this connection allows me not only some peace, but also a great outlet to vent. When he was 13, my husband’s father passed of a sudden heart attack at the age of 45.  His mother, 43, also a PA (along with 2 of her 5 sisters), went into a mean spirited depression and never remarried, she passed at 88 in 2006.  In the last 2 yrs. of her life, I was her helper (A-Z) while she was in assisted living.  He would not take care of anything for her.  They never got along.  Faked it at best.  L

Talk about coincidences!  My ex’s father also very mean; I learned after marrying him, but not to me.  Since ex didn’t seem to have any interest in his family which I didn’t understand, I made a point of having his dad for dinner once a wk or so.  I was working full time, dad lived a mile or so away so would call him to drive up the nights I new I would be home earlier.  I also made ALL the attempts with his sisters throughout the marriage believing this is what one does when they marry into a family.  The last 3 home never made attempt to do anything w/dad……..something I didn’t get at the time.  We didn’t have our daugher until we were married 10 yrs; I had divorced my ex once already 5 yrs. earlier due to his PA behavior.  Unfortuantely, I had to move home for a yr w/MOM because country was in a recession, at the time.  My Co. had put me on part-time (3 days) instead of full time; after selling house I moved back until economy got better.  After a yr. of his begging, pleading, crying & My MOM pressuring me again; I GAVE IN DESPITE MY DOUBTS.  Bingo, guess what……6 mo. back to same crap!  Like you said; some good times, but mostly not!  His Dad died 3 days after X-mas 1 yr.  I also did his X-mas cards including having him out for big dinner 2 wks before X-mas while we decorated tree w/our 2 yr. old.  He also spent every Thanksgiving & X-mas Eve w/us & my family.  Ex’s sister had dad on X-mas eve last yr. for couple hrs. before my house; it was clear he wouldn’t make it longer! Ex’s dad was so mean to all kids by this time, they called my ex & said ”you need to make sure dad showers 1x week;  he would take our daughter along to order him to shower!  He died 7 hrs. later that yr; he had developed severe dementia over a few months; he clearly needed a nursing home………….which I thank god we didn’t have to go through!  I’ll never be sorry I did what I did!

I just ordered the book on Amazon, thanks.  I am not sure if others had this problem, but one of the reasons I don’t plan to try and rekindle the marriage is because I feel like I live with a 17 year old. As though emotionally, I am the only adult in the room.  I married at 18, divorced at 23, because he was too young for that type of committment.  Even though he wanted to get back together a year later.  At 25 my husband and I started a long distance romance that lasted until we married when I was 29.  The long distance part and the fact we married 3 mo after his divorce was final (in the courts for 3 years), now I believe that kept me at bay from his “true” personality.  He is 8 yrs. older than me.  We have no kids together.  Thankfully!  I am also curious if anyone else has the issue of their spouse with PA not having any sense of humor?  He is always very serious towards me, quick to find fault, likes to point out what needs to be done but won’t do anything.  Will not make a decision about what restaurant we go to, ever.  Refers to other women he knows well as his “girlfriends” and loves to tell me about them even though I know for sure their relationships are platonic.  When his mom passed, his entire extended family stoped having anything to do with us.  Very odd!  He does not cheat, drink or do any drugs.  Very clean cut and by the book.  I have never been able to just relax and be myself in 25 years.  He always critques my behavior or actions.  If I was anything but 100% happy toward him, we had an issue.  It’s like he cannot process conflict or negativity or even my having a bad day.  If I am ill, forget about it, he either tries to convince me I am really not that ill or he says he is now ill and can’t help me recover.  However, in all fairness he has had to help me through some illnesses along the way, but afterward he was an absolute bear to live with.  I did ask him why he asks me what’s wrong with a furrowed brow and turned down smile.  Not a warm fuzzy there.  About 6 mo. before we got married his mom asked me when I was going to move out so he could date others and hopefully marry someone with money.
Recently we were discussing the fact I tried to leave him 6 mo after we got married and he did and said everything he could to make me stay.  Then he admitted he really did not care if “I” left for not, he just did not want his “X” to say “I told you it wouldn’t last”.  I sure did not feel good after I heard that comment.  Thanks, L

Lyndsay:  I think so many women/men who are on this site come to realize it’s the “covert” message they send over the yrs.  My husband is very funny, yet I’ve not seen him smile @ me in 20 yrs.  He can be a real joker w/everyone else.  He comes off as a great guy.  His idea of being funny w/me is through “sarcasm”.  When my mom died 10 yrs. ago from Alzheimers, I was having a bad day;  he was complaining to me when I mentioned just having a rough day.  His reply “people die everyday, Goldy, “F” deal w/it”.  This is the “real teddy” bear; the guy my mom adopted almost like her own.  She refused to talk to me about our problems after I divorced him/moved home telling me ” I don’t want to know I really like “ex”.  Terrific!  I hope she’s reeling in her grave right now!  The problem with PA is there are differing degrees of it; I’m sure you & I have developed our own PA issues to deal w/these guys…….that’s what I didn’t like about myself anymore.  Trust me the book will settle it for you even open your eyes even more.  I realized he was ”re-writing” marriage memories which I didn’t understand at the time……..now I know how bad things truly were even when I was still trying to figure out a way to improve things..  My husband was shocked when I told him we were done.  It was the night before my daughter’s graduation from the Naval Academy.  The look on his face was priceless!  I had waited 20 yrs to say that to him & it was worth every single second!  He would have lived the rest of our lives w/me as the status quo………….he had no intention of “having a wonderful life”. Shortly after Dr. Phil came on the air he was doing a story on divorce & he said “you know when it’s over because there’s no emotion, no anger…………it’s strictly a business deal”……it was exactly how I felt!  Luv, Goldy55

I found everytime we replyed to each other the “reply box” got smaller & smaller – 1″….it’s why I went to “Comment section”. I’m replying in “reply now” must re-set it!  My ex’s behavior got really bad especially the last 2 yrs.  I realize he felt something had changed w/me although I was still doing everything the same.  I had come to the realization I was finally getting out & no longer had the energy to go out of my way for him which is always the way it was.  He must have really sensed something was up, but didn’t realize I had now emotionally completely checked out…..like a robot, I guess is the best way I could explain it.  There so selfish they feel they are loosing something, but all we’re doing is acting the way they have treated us all of these yrs.  No longer the “fools” we had been!  Luv, Goldy55

Hi Goldy,  I totally agree.  As I said, I knew something was wrong when I got back from the honeymoon and wondered where my wonderful finace’ was and who was this man who called himself my husband.  The first time he yelled at me I thought I would die.  He is a master at never being at fault.  He twisted arguments and rehashed them until I had to apologize.  Our famous saying was “we are always walking on eggshells”, my fault again.  So, the beginning of 2010 I took ill (surgery complication) and several issues became crystal clear.  The end of 2010 I dismissed a covert aggressive staffer of 10 years.  What a nightmare living through that was at work.  To get a handle on her and prepare for the process I read “In Sheep’s Clothing”.  In the section I read about “Passive Aggressive” light bulbs went off.  So, I read books about that problem.  By January 2011 I was ready to discuss this new information with hubby.  He listened, denied, never meant anything by it, will work on changing and would go to couple’s counseling.  I found out that one cannot easily change how they are wired.  I did tell him I had to emotionally divorce him in order to stay.  He said that was fine.  By June, some improvement.  I was very detached.  By Sept. full relapse.  I told him I wanted out.  I went into “friends only” mode.  By Dec. I told him I am in and will remain in “friends only” mode and he must not think of me or treat me as a wife, since that is the reason we don’t get a long.  He agreed.  That agreement has been in effect for 3 weeks and all is well.  However, alone I am still processing the past, present and future by myself.  That’s why this site is a blessing.  Thanks, L

Hi Lyndsay:  I’m really happy for you; yet really sad too.  I was reading an article I took off the Internet last yr.  It was about a woman so depressed she spent the last 2 yrs. in bed.  One day, she realized “depression” is nothing more than denying “reality”.  It’s hoping, wishing etc. etc. things would be different, opposite of, “reality”.  It still hurts & the depression doesn’t just go away immediately, but when you really think about it denying reality is what we’ve been doing…………for yrs.  The’re jerks who aren’t capable of caring for someone deeply.  Sure they can have a relationship, but it wasn’t what I signed up for.  I realize my marriage did have some good by allowing me to get away from a disapproving mom…….allowing me the time to find a career passion.  I still had to come home from work though; never getting what I wanted or expected from my marriage.  My PA ex couldn’t settle an arguement; right fighter.  He would get violent suddenly w/no warning.  Frightening, you bet!  I realize how lazy he really is!  All respects.  We have several real estate investments; he’s walked away from it all…..yet by law he gets 50%.  His life!
I heard a good quote recently about forgiveness……it’s giving up the hope the past could be any different!  Luv, Goldy55  PS  I only wish I could tell you how far people like this will go to destroy you, but I can’t on this site!  It’s really sick!

Hi Lyndsay:  I believe it’s all related if you really think about it.  Panic attacks are really feeling “out of control”. In a PA relationship, you have no control over anything. In a normal, loving marriage a loving spouse reponds w/love or kindness to the other spouse.  In a PA marriage, it’s one spouse always doing for another; yet never getting anything positive back.  I’ve never had a “panic” attack; don’t want one.  I do have a strong sense of “self” though thanks to my career along with handling all of our money management issues through out our marriage.  My husband wanted none of it.  I built 2 homes w/no input from him; wasn’t interested.  So you see even though I got nothing from him emotionally, I as growing stronger by simply handling these major items by myself.  I did all the research & saw all projects to completion.  I really believe he had always hoped I would fail at something; I thank God that didn’t happen.  Like I said, it was really a very lonely marriage.  I was always on my own; resulting in building a strong sense of self!  The book talks about “re-writing marriage memories”….my ex did this.  7 or 8 yrs. ago, he told me I didn’t sub-contract out a vacation home we built.  I was shocked when he said this to me since the guys on the crew couldn’t understand my ex’s lack of interest.  I replyed to my spouse “and who did?” He now states he never said that, but the sad fact was he was “re-writing” our marital memories!  When I recently read “Why marriages Fail” this was one of the areas covered.  Luv, Goldy55

I’ve been separated from my “pa” for nearly 3 years….I have learned a lot….initially due to my anxiety(abandonment issue for me)….I had a phone therapist….then through a friend connected with a therapist in my city who helped me immensely….have done my “emdr” therapy….am in a much better place although my abandonment issue stills causes me anxiety….it was hard to know what was going on I agree….the silent treatment….the excuses….never being willing to accept responsibility….being resistent….I have learned though that it’s really the 10 year old boy who is having unresolved conflict with his mother….his anger is misdirected….he has issues with dependency, conflict and intimacy….won’t seek out therapy for himself….thinks it’s great that all of this has helped me….which of course is a subtle way of making me feel it’s all my issue…..but this is where the “pa’s” don’t accept responsibility….they feel if they have to give into anything that they are depriving themselves….I think as long as you keep learning about yourself that you will recognize the red flags….red flags would be a man who is just too charming, and it would be watching for all those “pa” characteristics. It’s remembering too that we all have emotional imprints from our past and until fully integrated they will keep popping up….the pa’s problem is one of denial….the 10 year old boy fears punishment and blame and shame which is what happened to him growing up….so unfortunately for the women in their life it’s the veil of the mother that passes over our faces when control arises from us….these types of men I don’t feel fully understand what “love” is….they push against love because in their past it asked something of them…..their little boy inside is saying “you can’t make me do that”.  Have you ever read the book “How to Get The Love You Want”?

All of this is so true…….the problem originated in childhood and their “10 year old” is still making excuses for themselves….because they aren’t able to accept responsibility….shame and blame were two areas that most “pa’s” grew up with….controlling mothers and ineffective fathers…..until one discovers sites on passive aggressive you think you are going crazy….they are so skillful at putting everything on you that you begin to doubt yourself….and the type of women who are with these types of men are very giving women….as one woman mentioned we end up being “earth mothers”….but no healthy man wants an “earth mother”…..until the veil of their own mothers stop being laid over top of ours they will remain stuck in their childhood…..in therapy my husband has admitted to causing me adversity and not giving me anything over the past few years….but he has never been willing to get into his own life…..once again the issue of not being able to accept responsibility for himself showed up when he commented that my daughter and I would shut him out if he didn’t return to the traditional family unit….I asked him to leave nearly 3 years ago because he was always out at night with the guys drinking…..it was never the fact that he shut himself out….no it was going to be dumped on us……these types of men are very good at manipulating the truth…..they avoid anything that would hold them accountable….thankfully our daughter is an amazing young woman as I sheltered her from the storms growing up…..I’ve even had sessions done with an angel reader to figure out a lot of this and they are so on about him…..that his issues about freedom are all about his mother…his issues with intimacy the same thing…..your comment about blaming those of us who tried to trust him enough to marry him is so accurate….and you are right we are the best thing that ever happened to them!

I understand the concept that her identity was wrapped up in his….when combined with other aspects in your past along with being a stay at home mom this can happen….my therapist had me read books about “co-dependency”….the end of the story there was that “through co-dependency I found myself”…..when you don’t have a separate life/identity beyond the home one essentially feeds off the other person….even if you are out there volunteering or being involved with your children’s activities you are still not having your own separate identity….after reading another book my therapist recommended on “boundaries” I understood more also….the type of women who live with these type of men have been raised I believe to think that whatever shows up they have to accept…..essentially we become “doormats”…..after I asked my husband to leave I began to experience what I later found out was “anxiety”…..this wasn’t caused by him but only triggered by him….the original wound happened in childhood when as a young infant I experienced “abandonment” while in a hospital sick….parents in those days weren’t allowed in like they are in these days…..this does result in trauma and when the right circumstances play out the anxiety arises…..I kept all the blinds in the house…it was like everything hurt….there was too much stimuli….I would shop late at night when it was dark outside and be sure to shop where nobody would know me….I didn’t want to have to respond to the question of “how are you?” This woman would benefit from a deeper form of analysis….”emdr” therapy…where it takes you into the right brain to release the trauma as the left brain isn’t capable of doing that…..or going to someone who does current/past life regression.  

As women I believe we are born to nurture and hence try and improve things…..women more easily work on themselves….I think men’s egos are much larger than us so for them to consider changing would take a big leap of faith…..I’ve learned a lot about the “false ego” via therapy and traits that we “disown” in childhood….so I see things more clearly now after being separated for 3 years….it is like coming out of a fog….once you begin to take charge of your own life…..co-dependency makes the matter worse….being a stay at home mom all these years made it worse in this regard…..I believe my husband would still be living here if I hadn’t told him to leave….he wanted out but didn’t have the courage to deal with that….I however could not endure the avoidance and withdrawal….the guy who sat in his cave in front of the tv…..I know I still have a lot to resolve as I still have anger and emotion….my irritation for his lack of initiation to change himself….to not be willing to see he needs to change and improve….he places limitations on his growth because he perceives he doesn’t want marriage….he underachieves within relationships….and I recognize now that his entire biological family is like this….he learned from his own dad that how you deal with a woman’s needs and demands is to escape them. What a great role model for our daughter….a man who won’t do all he can to improve himself…thankfully she turned out well….represses her emotions somewhat but other than that she’s great…she’s launched and is working in another province. He keeps looking for freedom….initially he thought getting away from me was the answer….that I was the source of all of his problems….what arrogance….now it’s that he just needs the piece of paper…..always something else….being out of work for nearly 2 years though he doesn’t have the funds to pay legal bills…he wanted to divorce me on an online website if you can believe it…my lawyer said “don’t fall for it”….but it’s the easy way out for him….he doesn’t like conflict….sitting in a lawyer’s office causes conflict…I got things going over a year ago but then sat back and said “how did I get stuck into paying for all of this crap”….so I stopped….his comment over a year ago was that he didn’t want to feel “enslaved” to me or to the corporate world….all of this goes back to feeling “enslaved” to his mother growing up…and now he’s the executor of her will and taking care of different aspects of her life….the woman who caused all the problems is still reeling in her son and he is at some level still waiting for her to love him….while all along he had a loving family to love him…..the emotional imprint of the past is the deepest though and the inner child will constantly be trying to find a way to integrate it…to heal it…..

The key is discovering what in our own pasts caused this “hook up”….as women until we know this we could draw the same type of man….wives of “pa’s” play a part in how they learned to please growing up as they watched their own parents play out their marraige. This is where therapy is helpful.

I now realize I “hooked up” w/my PA because of my relationship w/my own mom.  She was always disappointed in my grades, college drop-out, etc.  It took 2+ yrs. of separation, lots of time spent alone reading & reading.  I actually ended up in a terrific career, but not until I married my PA (age 22 yrs) & built myself up.  He was jealous, I now realize, but I was finally being told I was smart & a hard worker who climbed the corporate ladder.  I am divorced, but still have to see him on occassion & he is “meaner” than I could ever imagine.  Of course, he is 59 & living alone in an apartment!  Just as long as he’s no where close to me.  My daughter & I are still trying to heal from this mess.  She feels sorry for him, but she will realize, as she grows older, he did this to himself.  I strongly encourage you to teach your daughter, w/o pointing fingers at him, how important it is to tell people how their behavior hurts or encourages good feelings based on the situation.  After all PA behavior is “Hiding true feelings”.  Luv, Goldy55

Hi, new to this website, and thank you all so much for the information and support – PA is so subtle that it is difficult to describe to others – but you all know what it is and what it’s like to live with a PA….. I am currently separated and in the process of leaving a  total of a 32 year old marriage.  Divorced him at 19 years and then unfortunately remarried two years later and now ending it after 13 years. I knew better than to remarry and everything within me was saying “Don’t do it” but I did anyway- our son and daugther were hurting from the divorce and I thought I was wiser and stronger so I tried again.  To add to the guilt- I’m a licenced clinical social worker- a therapist- so why did I go back? Grieving now the loss of 32 years of my life with someone who was incapable of loving.  No respect for me- no trust in him- lies- obstructing any dreams/desires I might have- and all tied up with his mother who was an angry hypochondriac who shamed him and withheld affection.  I was just a substitute for his mom- an object- not a person and grieving the loss of what could have been- heart is broken. 

Hi Nora, I’ve read your response several times and understand/appreciate your assessment of my needs and lessons to be learned. I think that more information re: my background might be helpful to know. I had no understanding of PA behavior the first 15 years of my marriage- had never heard of it and was a stay at home mother – no internet- just trying to make this second marriage work. I was divorced the first time after 5 years, by my high school sweetheart who left me for his tennis partner- and married her 3 months later. We had a 3 year old son. I remarried my PA husband about 3 years later. Still very naive, but self esteem was better. After 15 years of a very confusing/difficult marriage- and my self/esteem now non-existent, I returned to school to finish my degree- went to counseling and began to understand what PA is all about- origins, etc… I also began to understand how I was conditioned to be so tolerant of bad behavior and the lack of respect shown to me with regard to my feelings, etc. As my understanding increased so did the conflict- I received my degree in social work- began to work in an intensive care unit at a hospital- primarily doing assessments and discharge planning, and we divorced. We still had two children at home -ages 12 and 16. We were apart for about 2 years and during that time there was more counseling and I began to work on a CD unit- taught assertiveness classes, and my own voice became much stronger as I learned to set boundaries, and have a very low tolerance for bad behavior. At the same time I became a very strong advocate for my clients and their right to be heard and valued- helping them to identify their own needs and what they would and would not accept in a relationship. My ex-husband seemed to respect the new me and so did I. He was reading and acknowledging the past, the family dynamics, and his desire to be free of destructive patterns. We reunited with hope for all of us – not just the children, and for a time it was good- not perfect, as there were some incidents, but I responded differently, and was able to express myself more clearly and see the subtle efforts to control for what they were. Eventually, I had a solid private practice that I enjoyed very much. He and I are both retired now, and the past 3 years has been extremely difficult, as he had a very high profile job with a lot of responsibility. He has been grieving the loss of his identity and feelings of relevancy, and his need for control has increased. As I have been at home much of the time with our 5 grandchildren and other activities, it has become much worse. The final incident occurred- the boundary crossed- and the marriage is over now. Though it is the right thing to do- the only thing to do at this point, there are still feelings of shame, embarrassment, loss (as it wasn’t all bad), and the guilt. I have now put my children through this- twice. Not the role model I would have hoped to be- and certainly there is guilt too about having the inability to speak assertively/calmly to him in the heat of the moment- (eg. using I messages) which triggered more anger and payback. Though I taught those skills I was not always able to “practice what I preach.” Nora, I have long been aware that love should not hurt, and that all of us have the basic right to have our feelings and opinions respected- just very- very slow to give up hope on this- my third failed marriage.

 Dear Goldy, Thank you so much. You are so right. I am so close to the situation that my ability to detach an look at what is happening objectively is sometimes impossible. The way everything is turned around and I’m suddenly at fault for reacting in an angry way to his paybacks. I know what he is doing but So hard when you worked in the field and know better but still unable to respond in a more constructive way- makes me question everything. He does acknowledge some of what he does-is leaving tomorrow for a workshop in Maryland with Dr Steven Stosney.I hope it helps him. He met with an attorney yesterday and has called several times since then- very sad. I think he realizes the financial loss he will experience and hoping for reconciliation. I can’t trust anything he says or does now. The last straw was when he posted photos of me on facebook that were very unflattering. When I asked him to remove them, he told me it was HIS facebook. I said but it’s my photos and I would like for you to remove them as they embarrass me. He came to me later and said that he had removed them- I didn’t check to make sure. 4 months later- just as we were to meet with a realtor to look at a house at the lake (my dream) he mentioned the photos.  He hadn’t deleted them- just moved them to another album and when I expressed my hurt, he told me he had never said he would delete them- a lie.  It’s all so self-destructive. Maybe on some level he cares about me- as much as he is capable- but I am no longer willing to have anyone in my life that would Deliberately hurt me as he does- repeatedly.

Hi Sydney51:  I now realize my ex wanted me for my brain, then resented it & I now realize was jealous of my career success.  I always believed what WE were doing was for US, not me.  He always jumped on the bandwagon, but then deliberately, I now realize tried to sabotage every-thing!  Why?  I am now left trying to understand.  I only now realize it is what it is!  I truly wish you the best……….the material things aren’t worth it if you can’t enjoy it together & are secretly resented for all of it.  Love, Goldy55