Ask Nora

Share Your Questions Here – And I’ll Answer In Future Posts

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  • molly195977

    Today is my 11th year anniversary.  To detail what I’ve been through this last year, including him leaving me in another State with no possible work options, and at his financial mercy, I can honestly say I have worked hard to travel 5 states to try again.  This has been the hardest year of my 52 years on earth.

    So I thought we had made plans to go to an antique mall today, with a lunch/dinner plan.  Kind of wing it but spend the day together.  I can’t get him to talk or plan.  He does “this thing” where he clasps his mouth with his hand while his fingers are constantly moving.  Like he’s somewhere else completely.  No eye contact either. The only thing that he will talk about is “what he’s done for me “for our anniversary”".  He’s been on a frantic house cleaning mission for days.  After about the tenth time of him telling me this I called him on it.  He had earlier told me the real truth of this mission.  So I asked the question that set him completely off, “So which is it?  Did you do it for the reason you stated earlier or for me?”  That was all it took.  He doesn’t yell, he just raises his voice so I can’t be heard unless I scream, then I look like a total banshee. If I wait for him to finish, with a comfortable pause, and in a normal tone, he starts up again telling me (the usual line) “It’s all about YOU isn’t it?!” Over and over and over. I finally agree to stop the cycle.

    Over the past 11 years I gave up my job so that I could go into business with him.  If I would have put those 11 years into a medical career, I would be a very skilled neurologist by now.  But with my Husband, I am still crawling on my hands and knees, picking up after him.  On the job he barely lets a customer get a word in while he boldly sings his praises of what an accomplished person he is. He is talented at what “we” do but rarely get called back to the same job.

    We are constantly having money problems.  The solution.  The car “he bought me for a birthday present” (that I worked for also) is now his car since we couldn’t keep up the payment on his van.  I didn’t even want this car.  It was too expensive.  Finally got it paid off, now he has hocked it.  My wedding ring, in hock.  One memorable birthday a neighbor threw a small get together for me.  Hubby bought me a ring and necklace we couldn’t afford.  Made a show of giving it to me that night, though I was with him when he bought it and planned this charade, only to take it back for a refund the next day.

    I’m too tired to leave and have no friends or family to rely on.  I have a backpack.  He keeps telling me if I don’t like it here, I can pack it and leave.  Convenient after he’s used everything up and am no use to him anymore.  “Just leave” is his other mantra. 

    Happy Anniversary.  I just don’t care anymore and am tired of trying to come up with any kind of solution.

  • Goldy55

    Hi Molly:  I was exactly where you are today, 2-3/4 yrs.ago; I understand your anquish!  I am here to tell you that you can pull yourself up by the boots straps & rise again.  I went through this for 33 yrs.  It’s not easy believe me!  You say you would be a skilled neurologist by now so I’m not sure where you left off w/your training.  Can you start at the point you left off or do you need to back-track a little bit to get going again?  Please, Please look into this if not for yourself, then for ME!  I want you to get back to the place you left before HIM!  You can do this!!!!!!!  Your 5 yrs. younger than me & I now realize even though I left my career behind 12 yrs. ago due to an injury which sidelined me, I am much wiser, smarter & better than ever!  From here on out, do only what is good for you……..no more US.  Get to a domestic violence center; explain your situation & they will give you step by step help to re-build yourself & your life.  This is abuse even if he isn’t physically assaulting you……………they will recognize this & explain it to you!  Please, please do this for me if not for yourself.  If you believe in God, pray & ask him for the help to get out of this situation!  He will help you I will assure you of that!  Luv, Goldy55

  • Goldy55

    HI Tessa:  Better late, that never, to your statement “believing this is a “genetic” inclination; I think this hits it right on the nail.  This behavior is so full of “negativity” I still can’t believe anyone thinks this way.  My experience, the experience of others on this site all points to the same “selfish”behavior, lack of self-esteem, narcissictic behavior directed to or at the “person” who “loved them”.  WHO DOES THIS!  Treats the supposed most important person in their life…………like a piece of garbage!  I’ve read no fewer than 15 books on this topic, most best sellers, describing what “behavior” destroys relationships.  I came to the same conclusion, based on Dr.John  Gottman’s numerous books on Marriages, Relationships, through working or everyday life, & they all come to the same conclusion……….this behavior which is blamed for the extremely high divorce rate will destroy any intimate relationship of any kind.  Since it is deemed almost rampant in our society as a whole, their does appear to be some type of genetic component which may turn it’s self “on” at sometime in life just like numerous diseases such as cancer, MS etc. etc.  Somebody should do a research study on this one!  There also appears to be a “direct” correlation to some type of “trauma, abuse or other negative” event in childhood!  Why some people come into adulthood, even though they may have suffered abuse as a child, unscathed & others who are permanently damaged by it is a DAM good ? 

  • molly195977

    Goldy,
    Thanks for your response. I guess that I just needed to hear some validation. 20 years ago I was in a physically abusive relationship that I was lucky enough to escape with my life. You know it’s bad when they call the coroner in to take your picture in the emergency room. Two weeks out of the ICU and I had a job. Four weeks out I had a nice studio apt.

    This relationship is not physically abusive but I have to tell you, some days I feel like I’ve been beat up.  The emotional is just as bad and I’m convinced that in some cases, it can kill you.  I’m done. The next time he tells me it’s all about me, at least I can agree with him in a reasonably calm voice.

    Something snapped tonite. He came home with a bottle of rum and proceeded to get drunk. Not his usual self. Then the verbal started again. I kept stopping, reminding myself it is impossible to talk WITH him on a sober basis.  Under the best of circumstances there is no point arguing with someone that is drunk.  That’s it.  I’m done. I put in my ear buds and put my favorite radio station on.  Pulled up my half finished resume and worked on it for over an hour.  He finally went to bed. I imagine he got tired of hearing is own voice.

    I wasn’t in the medical field, can barely have my own blood drawn without passing out.  I was making a comparison to any line of work that I would have put 11 years into.  I was a secretary in different companies and excelled to the point that I was the top person that was sent out when working for a temp agency in So. California and Nevada.  I did so well that at one point a Fortune 100 company bought out my contract.  I climbed to the top of the company within 6 months.

    My obstacles are 1.  No vehicle.  Oh well.  I walked 2 miles round trip in a foot of snow for a couple of months when he left last year (on Christmas Day without telling me he was leaving).  I also lost 40 lbs and got back to my high school weight.  I have a nice bike and the bus stop is a shorter hike than last years treks.  2. Having a little difficulty with the resume program I’m using.  So, since I have had experience with temp agencies, I know that they test you first, and if you are open, honest, and show an eagerness to succeed, someone is bound to help you through some of these hurdles. 3. Limited funds but I learned to always keep some money stashed where no one can touch it.  You’d be surprised how fast nickels and dimes can add up and are not usually missed.

    My strengths: 1. I’ve hit bottom and you should see what I can accomplish when I start back up.  Proven track record on that.  2. I am motivated, have no problem talking to people and do quite well at interviews.  I’ve seen some of the people in the clerical support field. Bring it on.  I’m always early and love to stay busy.  I know how to dress and shop for deals at the thrift store to get started. 3. My mind is always working and have saved a couple of companies hours by implementing simple proceedures. A good challenge should keep my mind off the negative also.  4. I’m not afraid to ask for reasonable help with my problems. 

    You’re right, something about being older and wiser. Just wanted to let you know that I have looked for support groups in my area and there are none that I can find. Seached Meetup and googled everything that I could think of. Nothing. So, I found this little group. Seems like a good fit to me. Instead of meeting once a week, you responded to me a couple of hours later.  And I also just might learn something as I did from your post. Hopefully I can help someone else in turn with mine. 

    Thanks for your supportive words.  This forum is an invaluable tool. It won’t be easy, but it wasn’t easy getting this miserable either.

    Molly

  • molly

    By the way, God IS the one that is guiding me.  I have a firm belief in Him and know he is helping me through this turbulent time.

  • Lesley

    Hello,  I have a rather unusual type of question. 

    Regarding the lack of intimacy in PA scenario’s, Nora what are your thoughts about an open marriage with a PA husband.  Mine…lol…plays or tries to play a bit of a jealousy game and was very interested in swinging which we did but it backfired on him.  He and I quote said “it wasn’t what I thought it was going to be”……this is because he thought it was just going to make me jealous and it would be better for him than me!  Boy was he wrong……so now he’s not too enthusiastic about it at all….lol.  I am thinking that perhaps I should discuss an open marriage but before I do that I am wondering what your experience with this are.

    Thanks.

  • Nora

    Lesley,
    I have no predetermined answer to your question.If he thought that this kind of proposition would enhance his own sexual disposition, I guess that he got frustrated. The dynamics of PA doesn’t play very well including others…you are supposed to be the only recipient of his frustrating moves. When it didn’t happen as he imagined, then comes his surprise, because in that way you stopped being controlled by his usual antics.
    You can go ahead with your proposal, but be very aware that there is not a lot of space in this game and he will flip, or do something to go back to the status quo….

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  • Al Orne

    Hello.  Just found this website.  My life is crumbling, largely because I have a completely passive aggressive husband.  I like the advice I have seen so far but don’t think they’re relevant to my situation because I don’t think my husband would mind one bit if I ignored him when he behaved badly.  He wouldn’t even notice.  In fact, if I didn’t talk to him or look at him or touch him or anything ever again, he wouldn’t give it a second thought.  I am single and yet stuck in a marriage with three children.  Any advice welcome.  Thanks.

  • Al Orne

    I showed this website to my husband.  Obviously, he just walked off without saying a word.  LOL.

  • Goldy55

    Dear Al:  I hope you don’t mind if you explain what the definition of “stuck in a marriage, but I am single w/3 children.  Let’s start with this answer & I believe you might be in the right place. 

  • http://www.creativeconflicts.com Nora Femenia

    Dear Al Orne,
    I understand your frustration, reflected in your famous phrase: single in a marriage with three children. I could not be more clear: you are feeling completely abandoned by him. As you describe him, he is acting as if he is detached from you completely. Is he detached also from the children? If so, there is little hope that he would show his affection for your group as a family.
    Regardless what can or can’t have happened in the past to cause this degree of emotional independence between you two, the gap is serious.
    You don’t say clearly if you approach him when he behaves badly or sometimes you reach out at him in more calm times…It would be useful here to see if there is any way of getting a reaction from him: if you don’t say anything when he behaves badly, but decide to appreciate the little “right behaviors,” like driving the kids to school, or paying the bills, or doing something common but necessary for the functioning of the home. This last situation should surprise him; he is not expecting from you any positive comment! if you can stop chasing him with PA readings, and do something extraordinary like appreciating something he has done, that will shake him up, and you would know that you can move him somehow and that his shield is not so impenetrable. Try to shake him, surprising him somehow,  only to feel that you have the power to do so….and you will discover that there are things left in your power. That will make you feel a bit better. 
    Hope this is clear, even if you can see it as a bitter pill; but you need to recover some self-esteem now.

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  • Marty

    @ Al Orne: LEAVE. That’s the only solution. There is a post above about s.o. who claims they’re re-trying and things have changed. Don’t believe it. After a while it will turn out to be even worse. A PA will NEVER put in as much energy into the relationship as you do. Therefore, the relationship will never be equal. On this website, there are so many tips about how to live with a PA and about his/ her psyche. The real issue is, however, that the PA doesn’t give a damn about YOUR psyche and your feelings. We all try to understand our PA spouses, but as a ‘thank you’ they’ll turn their back even more on you, because the last thing a PA wants is a spouse that sees through him… Again, leave. And don’t feel guilty, because he or she has already let you down and mentally left you months or years ago. I wish you all the best.

  • Janet

    I’ve been separated from my husband for 3 years now…..I was quite the mess for sometime as I had lost so much of my original spunk but through therapy and reading a great many books I began to get reacquainted with myself. He wanted to divorce me on an line website if you can believe that after 25 years….my lawyer said “don’t fall for it”……oh yes he had had a great job which he ended up losing because he had a run in with his female boss….she put the moves on him after I told him to leave….as “pa’s” have issues with controlling women he reacted badly to her advances and told her he wasn’t the least bit interested in her….all of this came out during his performance review and in the end he was dismissed after 10 years of working there….a inquest was held and the company basically said “sorry about that but it’s more like they side with the woman” and this woman has done this to other women…..they kept her on as they were grooming her for upper management….they relocated her to another area in the company and my husband was given his walking papers….basically they were the “perfect storm” colliding….he got a lawyer but she told him it would end up in court for 3 years and he might be lucky to see $10,000 so take the package….so when we met with the lawyer after this period of time he said he decided to “check out”…..basically said I’m going to go and grow vegetables….I nearly fainted away right then…..well that idea came and went and even in the fall he told me he just hadn’t wanted to work for that year and a half but would have to do something as the money was getting tight….I’m still in the house that still has a mortgage on and am paying for all of this with an inheritance but it won’t go on forever…..he’s done a bit of consulting but nothing permanent…..

    Here’s the thing…..I don’t want to pay for this divorce as he was the one who wanted it….wants to live alone….wants to be free…..likes being isolated….lots of mother issues which he is in denial about….we did a bit of therapy and he did lots of crying during that time….but it was always about him being a victim….that my daughter and I would shut him out….at one time he talked about building a bridge but of course you can’t build a bridge with the same behaviours that knocked it down and he’s oblivious to that as he has believed all of this is my fault….they love to blame and never take responsibility…..he said he didn’t want to feel he had to be a better father/husband….thankfully our daughter did finish up university and has a great job but it impacted her in a big way for those first few years….and I was left to carry all of her pain while he “avoided”….

    So the question is what to do now? He’s not working much so I don’t have much to gain financially at present other than he said I could have the house but of course there is a mortgage on it….yes I would qualify for half his pension down the road but I don’t see any support unless he finally lands a full-time job and I think he’s avoiding that so he doens’t have to alter his lifestyle….wants to be free of all expectations…..or pay me alimony….being a passive aggressive I want him to finally accept responsibility for this divorce….his desire and all…..he’s not pressing for it as he figures he has his freedom and he’s living alone the way he wants it…..had told me the night I told him to leave 3 years ago that I wasn’t “good” for him….the issue of not being able to handle responsibility or expectations as his mother placed too many on him growing up…..I’m trying to find full time work but so far have just secured some temp work after taking some computer courses….I had been at home for 20 years when all of this happened…I did a year and a half of elderly care but wanted something that used my brain as I slowly put myself back together…..lots of his stuff is still here in the house….he came for his bike and some speakers just a month ago and that’s been 3 years….I sort of feel like I’m holding his stuff hostage until he takes responsibility for the divorce but he’s not doing anything….isn’t it wrong to take responsibility for the divorce since him avoiding responsibility is the pattern???He had told the lawyer a year and a half ago that he would file but of course that never happened….he hates feeling bad about himself and is a big avoider of unpleasant tasks….I just don’t want to have to return to the lawyer’s table should he get a permanent job….to pay those fees….it’s like I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place……I’ve outlined via texting things I have come to understand and his comment was “I’m glad you have me all figured out now”…..I just heard his mom has lung cancer and I’m thinking when she passes away that the mother issue will hit him and who knows what he will do then…..just not sure how to proceed with all of this after 3 years….I know I will feel more solid once I have a permanent job and put myself back together physically…..

  • Marty

    Janet, what is exactly PA about your husband? Don’t get it.

  • http://www.creativeconflicts.com Nora Femenia

    Janet,
    you are hanging on the hope that he finally, will take responsibility for the divorce, while he is perfecting his “victim perspective” on all this affair. Well, he will not do anything of what you want to have done. It is best for you to pull yourself by your bootstraps and keep going. In fact, there is no other way, if you really want to recover your own life. Fortunately, your own child is grown up and in a good position to take care of herself. It’s you now that has to be the center of your own attention!

    Please, make a plan: 
    1) start divorce papers even finding a pro bono lawyer;
    2) make a list of your work prospects, craft your resume, begin hanging up in some groups to give you support while job hunting, and keep pushing ahead;
    3) follow the program of “putting yourself back together:” 
    –take care of doing yoga, going to the gym, walking daily;
    –watch your weight and do a healthy diet;
    –find things you love to do and get your daily dose of joy….
    –get rid of his things in your house, clean everything that is not yours
    –change everything you can inside the house: renovate, paint, etc
    –be creative in the mortgage payment dept: find roommates, etc.

    Finally, begin a plan of daily meditation and focus on creating the life you want for yourself…and when you find yourself thinking about your ex- do a serious effort to focus on your own needs,, wishes and plans…
    Your happiness is not so far away, but you need to re-focus on the new life that was given to you, and make it work for you!
    Be well,

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  • Toby42169

    Wowee….This site has opened my eyes a bit.  I never saw my husband as PA before until I began reading all of this.  I see bits of myself here as well, however, I am proud to say that I have done the work to recognize and take responsibility for those behaviors and have made many changes.  The PA my husband exhibits is very insidious.  He words and actions have caused me to doubt my reality.  His constant, Defend, Deny, Deflect tactics have turned into outright verbal abuse now that I am no longer seeking for him to “understand.”  For many years, I always assumed that if he only “understood me” he would engage and communicate.  Hey, he loves me right?  So, why wouldn’t someone who says he loves me want to work things out?  I realize now that banging my head against that wall has just served to keep up the game according to his rules.  I have recently begun the difficult process of ignoring bad behaviors and praising all good ones.  I learned one thing on this site that I was completely blind about.  When I read the bit about self deprecation, (I SUCK) my jaw nearly hit the floor.  I never got it before that when he says, “I SUCK ~ I’M A BASTARD” after I raise a very difficult issue, that he was doing this to change the dynamic and get empathy.  I always thought of him as being irreverent and just wanting to divert the conversation because he was uncomfortable.  Big insight for me..

  • Sheilah Davis

    Thank you for your articles.

  • SheilahT

    First, I want to thank you for your articles. They give me hope and understanding.

    I’m trying to exit a 20 year relationship with a passive aggressive man. He hails from a narcissistic family.

    Early in the relationship, I became the target of a stalker. I was in a graduate psych program at the time.  The stalker approached my professors trying to spread malicious gossip. One of my professors warned me that my husband was trying to get me
    to drop out of school. My husband denied it. I was frightened and left with my MA. The stalking followed me to every volunteer opportunity, every job, lunches I had with friends, and these unknown people even hassled colleagues in an office building where I tried to start my own business. I never see the stalker, other people tell me that a man (or a woman) will approach them with my picture, demand information about me, and say malicious things about me. I always assumed that the stalkers were members of his extended family but I never knew for sure. 

     I haven’t held a real job in 15 years. When I leave the house, the stalking picks up. I’m trying to plan for a divorce. We have three children.  He is filing for bankruptcy in the next few months, so I can’t leave until he’s done with that.

    He has left me three times in the past twelve years, each time promising to allow me to work in exchange for his return. When he’s gone, life is nice.  I can do anything.  If I look for work, take classes, run for office, or volunteer….the stalking picks up and he’ll find some weird way to sabotage me. This is the craziest thing he has done: I ran for office as a conservative and got a lot of press. This man signed our family up for food stamps during that campaign. I didn’t know he could do that without my consent. We never used the food stamps but I was incredibly embarrassed by that. 

    We haven’t shared a room for twelve years. We haven’t been intimate for five years. He’ll let me give him pleasure but he won’t do the same for me. This has taken more of a toll on my self-esteem than any thing else. I’ve been in therapy off an on numerous times during our relationship.

    The local police are sure that my husband is my stalker as it only seems to happen when he
    isn’t around. He has been known to be violent and during his rages he will say I am just like his mother (stupid and not worthy of respect). The police have come out a couple of times due to his rages but they have never arrested him.   The victim’s advocate at
    the police department wants me to stay quiet about my plans for divorce as they fear that the abuse and stalking will pick up if I try to leave.

    Here are my questions. Is it common for passive aggressive men to get violent? Or stalk? Is the sabotaging behavior normal? Any advice on coping with the rages or planning to leave?

    Please forgive the length of the post. I think it helped me process what is really going on.

    Thank you.

  • dory

    Some see the light, others do not. Some see it ONLY when they realize they WILL lose their wife, aka “mommy” (ie. they no longer have control over her).So until some wives are ready to follow their words with action (divorce), they will not see results. Some, when they take that action will see a man who is ready to change, others will find a man who refuses to change. Regardless, that woman is “free” from the abuses of PA either in a changed man, or in a divorced man. Truth is, he divorced her in his heart LONG LONG ago. She would just be putting to paper the “truth” of their marriage status. Sometimes the truth will set you free. Sometimes it also sets HIM free to realize his need to change. There are no guarantees, only second chances at life.

  • Beentheredonethat!

    So what do you respond when you’ve done the “positive talk” and still receive only grief? Leave – or what then?

  • rose

    what do you do when your husband wants attention from any women married or not
    like he made a cake and took some to a neighbors house the wife called and thanked him only, Since he made it and made sure he said he baked it.

  • http://www.creativeconflicts.com Nora Femenia

    You have to be very clear with yourself:

    Be positive and gentle;

    List the necessary changes without inducing guilt;

    Be compassionate and neutral, firm in your list of demands: “What needs to happen here is…”

    NOW: detach from the results: “I will be watching what you do because we happen to live together, but I’m telling you that this new attitudes are in your domain. I would be happy if and when you do the changes; but if you don’t do anything, don’t expect me to be destroyed by frustration or disgust. I will continue doing what I love, and enjoying my life….”

    Here is the clincher: Do not show any excitement or surprise if the does the same behavior as always; this is his baseline and he will stick to it. Don’t mention the changes anymore, but don’t do anything with him up until you see that he is taking his promises seriously. What matters is that you are always busy, doing things you love, interested and full of life.

    He has to see that he can’t destroy you with his usual shenanigans; or that you depend for your happiness of what he does, because he will be tempted to provoke some pain on you. Be neutral, optimistic and happy with what you do. And look the other side when he is trying to impress you with his bad behavior…..

    Let me now if this strategy is clear here, will you?

  • saraha

    I agree, it never gets better.

  • wantsout

    Two years after telling my PA husband I want a divorce, he is still “thinking” about how he is going to make the marriage better! If he has no idea after two years, he never will. I just need to get strong enough time to move out.

  • dory

    Amen. Keep your heart open to the possiblity of him changing, but take action too. A really good read is How to Spot a Dangerous Man Before You Get Involved by Sandra Brown. Get it at the library. It will help to validate your need to move on to save yourself. I know you’ve probably already “invested” alot of years in this man/relationship, but if he refuses to change, how will YOU be in that many more years from now? Women are deeply changed/wounded by their male mates. There are good men out there who will love you as he is supposed to do, they are just really hard to find. Books by Lundy Bancroft are really good too.

  • http://www.creativeconflicts.com Nora Femenia

    Are you aware of our last publication? The one we told you before? in this posting/letter: http://passiveaggressivehusband.com/intimacy-real-connection-marriage/
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  • wantsout

    Thank you so much! I will get that book and read it. I do need to boost up my self-confidence. I appreciate your help.

  • Justme

    Nope. He won’t change. Don’t waste another minute of your life. Check out.

  • gp

    Hi,

    My husband is controlling regarding money. He calculates everything, checks our bills and questions on a regular basis my expenses. He will often ask me why I purchase this or go there. We are not in debt and I am the main breadwinner in the family making 6 figures. He seems always very unhappy and unpleased…I feel trapped and often feel like I would rather be alone that to go through these episodes of arguments and screams..It is is way or the highway. What do you suggest I do?

  • Nora Femenia

    Review your self-esteem. This is my only answer…your husband is feeling diminished because you are earning more, and tries to reestablish his “male authority” by controlling the money that you bring home. This dynamics can be very demoralizing for you, and has to stop.
    First, convince yourself that there is nothing wrong with you making money, especially when you share it with the family;
    Second, you deserve more respect, because you are doing exactly a lot to support the family.
    Third: have a conversation with him:
    talk with him about how decisions on money have to be shared, and that having a “money manager” controlling you is negative and diminishing your interest in doing your best. Explain the alternatives: does he want you reduced to the role of the house wife with no income? how you both are going to live then? Is he capable of going out and producing the same income?
    If his answers are no, no and no, then say:
    “From now on, I will bring the money to the bank, we will allocate together a percentage to support the house, plus some money for your expenses, and I will dispose of the rest on my own.”
    THEN, you gather your courage and do it. Or begin saving part of that money in a bank account only in your name.
    If you think long term, either your husband matures and accepts gracefully the situation as no damage to his masculinity, or he has to pull himself together and find a business or a job that produces the money that will reflect his worth.
    Is his challenge, and if he doesn’t grows to solve it, the future for the relationship is not very promising. Hope that he understands and changes for the best!

  • NewlyAware

    I have just discovered my husband is PA, thanks to your website! I’ve been married to him for 15 years and he regularly tells me that I am the one with strange opinions and thoughts – that I am the crazy one. I have let him know that I’ve been married twice before and the problems in our marriage were not problems in those marriages. I have thought “Wow, being married to those men was a walk in the park compared to him.” Why have I stayed so long? Religious convictions that I didn’t have with my other 2 marriages. We have 3 beautiful girls now and he came into the marriage with 1 daughter. I am amazed that your website hits on just about everything he has done which has baffled me over the years. When we met, I liked to touch and call him special pet names. He didn’t like these things and discouraged this. I thought I needed to understand that some people just aren’t overly affectionate. He has kept secrets from me with his daughter and more recently with our children (12, 10, 8). He has chosen to tell other people important information he should have shared with me and then says it in front of me to them. I have confronted him and said this is not right – he has excuses and tries to be manipulative in his responses. When I was pregnant with our first child, he was not interested in sex. When I realized it was an ongoing issue, I asked him about it and tried to mention things I thought may be the true reasons. His response was that there was no reason and I shouldn’t analyze everything. It wasn’t that we didn’t have any sex during the pregnancy but it was a considerable drop from previously. He had the same pattern with our other two children. This was emotionally devastating for me but I determined it wasn’t my problem – I’d tried to help come up with an answer and he was simply going to do what he was going to do no matter what. I’ve recently wondered if it was a punishment type of tactic since I was very invested in providing the best for our baby (I would eat healthy, absolutely no alcohol, no headache medicine, etc. – he would balk at my “extreme” concern for providing the best for our baby in utero). He has taken off his wedding ring while at home for years now, saying that the water under the ring is annoying to him (water that sits in the cavern of the diamonds). I have told him it bothers me that he does this and have suggested getting him a simple ring (no diamonds) to wear – he refused. I have sought counseling over the years and have taken him along two different time periods. He has rejected wanting counseling and claims that he “is there for me”. He was openly honest with the counselor that he felt I was the one needing help. I did come into our marriage with childhood baggage and this seemed to somewhat make sense to me; however, I did remain firm that I felt we needed help with our communication issues. He refuses counseling now, saying it just doesn’t help (he barely attended the sessions the last two times). I am frustrated that it seems this will be a lifelong problem to bear and I am quite concerned with the messages our young children are receiving from our interaction with each other. I don’t want them to repeat this cycle of behavior in their own marriages!! I feel I am an assertive person but my self-esteem was lacking in the beginning of our marriage due to childhood problems (most of which I feel have been healed and corrected now). I am regaining confidence and am cautiously beginning to ponder if a divorce is the right course of action in my situation. Of course, I could go on an on with examples but I will leave it with this for now. Please give me advice.

  • Confused

    Hi Newlyaware, I too am newly aware. Even though we’ve been married for 12 years. I came across this website when researching “emotional abuse”. This is when I discovered that PA is a huge part of it. Lately, I feel like I’m losing my mind and doubting myself all the time. He’s got me convinced that everything is my fault. He has stepped it up a notch lately by threatening to leave which wouldn’t be so horrible if not for my 2 young children (one of whom is a special needs child) and I have no family or support system. I cannot make him happy. We cannot have a conversation without getting into a heated argument. Every little thing is a problem. Been to counseling but he won’t go back I think he’s pissed that the counselor pointed some stuff out that he didn’t like. He cannot take any kind of criticism, even constructive. I say it’s black, he says its white, etc He picks on every little thing. I feel like I can’t be me. There is no reasoning with him. He just doesn’t get it. I don’t know what to do anymore. Really I just need ways to cope without totally losing my mind. I need support and advice.

  • http://www.creativeconflicts.com Nora Femenia

    Dear NA, it is so clear that he is not having any respect for you now. You need to have a serious conversation with a coach, or a therapist, with the question: How can I take control of my own life?
    Please, do a serious effort to detach from this relationship and work on your own self-esteem issues; he is not engaging in this marriage at all, but manages to have some benefits from it, that are coming at the expense of your self-respect.
    Look at your own life, and make a plan to improve your life as much as you can. Read books, learn strategies to feel stronger, make new friends, start a business or a hobby and be clear at all moments that you are responsible for making yourself happy. If you look at him for that, he will use the chance to humiliate and trash you. So, don’t leave anything open: be reserved with your plans, have them created and begin doing things you always wanted to do before. Good luck, and write back!

  • NewlyAware

    Dear Confused,

    I completely understand what you are going through. It sounds like you’re married to my husband! : ) I, too, have put up with this emotional abuse for these 15+ years, mostly because of wanting to have a two-parent home for my children. I also saw what kind of problems would come up if we were separated by watching his interaction with the mother of his daughter and I know that the issues will never really end. But lately I’ve been wondering if the reprieve between times of dealing with him would be worth it. My husband has also threatened leaving me (several times over the years) and claims he would do everything possible to try to get the children. This scares me – I couldn’t imagine everyday life without my sweet kids! I think the reason my husband now refuses counseling is that the last counselor said he had many issues that he needed to work on. Shortly thereafter he had various reasons why he couldn’t get to his sessions and he never returned.

    I feel for you. Keep strong and remember that it is not your fault and you are not losing your mind. I have felt the same way but this website has opened my mind to understand that it really is him and not me and that I just need to learn to focus on me and focus on interacting confidently with him. My biggest problem is that I react with anger and sometimes “rage” (nothing physical and no broken items but a lot of raw anger). This I will need to control to deal properly with him from now on.

    I’m considering counseling for myself soon. How about you?

  • Confused

    Dear Newly Aware, I have been seeing a therapist for a number of years now. For the first five years of our marriage, he was a model husband. Sweet, understanding, approachable, and very even in his moods. Then his PA/emotionally abusive behavior started out of the blue. My therapist thinks it’s related to the death of his mother. It all started shortly after his mom died. I believe this must be correct. What keeps me hanging in there is my children and the hope that my sweet, understanding husband will return someday. But for now, I have no idea how he’s going to react or handle things. It’s extremely unpredictable. I never know what will set him off, it’s usually something as simple as me asking him “what are you doing today?” this can send him into a rage. We could be talking and laughing like normal one minute and fighting like cats & dogs for no reason the next minute. I have retaliated with some passive behavior of my own. Not to get back at him but simply to avoid confrontation with him. So I find that not talking to him much reduces his explosive episodes, and it’s my wall of protection. I am the one that doesn’t want to have sex, not to get back at him, I just don’t want to. How can I have sex with someone I can’t even have a rational conversation with???? His outbursts are not exactly a turn-on. He said to me “you have no room in your life for me” Thats because I work two jobs, take care of the house, kids, and all the finances. I do the books and all the paperwork for his business (he’s self-employed). When my day is over, I can barely keep my eyes open. I’m mentally and physically exhausted, it’s that simple. I’ve been telling him for years that it’s all too much for me, I’m overwhelmed and I need help. He says he’s gonna help but he always has an excuse why he can’t. He puts everything on me so when something goes wrong of course it’s all my fault because I didn’t do it right. I am taking it one day at a time, it’s all I can do. I call my therapist when usually after he’s had one of his irrational, explosive episodes, and I start doubting myself. She then validates me and gets me through it. This is the best I can do for now. I do recommend counseling. It really helps. I like this website. I will keep checking back for new posts. Good luck to you.

  • NewlyAware

    Dear Confused,

    It is so hard to keep putting ourselves out there for them to walk all over and treat us as their punching bag. I understand what you’re talking about. I also don’t know what to expect from my husband. Things can finally feel like they are “normal” and have settled down from whatever our last problem was and then out of the blue he will act a certain way that makes me think “what happened?”. If I were to treat someone that way, it would be because I’m upset about something and they’ve really done something wrong. I am relishing the words from this website that it is not my fault. I have lived there for over 15 years and it is so refreshing to know that I didn’t do anything to deserve this type of behavior. My husband lost his mom a month before we got engaged. I saw certain red flags in the 3 years we dated and I should have acted on those but unfortunately it wasn’t until after we married that I really came to understand there were significant problems. At least you have those 5 years and can know that he can be a different person – he just needs help from a therapist in dealing with his issues to get back to that person he was. I hope he will seek help.

    As for the sex issue, I haven’t wanted sex for a long time either but it was so unusual what happened during my pregnancies that I’ve found it quite baffling. To read on the website that PA’s will withhold sex to punish the other helped me to come to terms with a possible answer to why he was that way. I agree with you on both accounts: How can I be close and intimate in that way with someone that treats me this way? I feel the same. And I too am exhausted and worn out. I don’t have the same life challenges you do but I am very busy trying to ensure the house is run in a way that I want, the kids get to activities, and I work part-time as well. My husband encourages me to go out and do things, to meet with friends, attend events, begin exercising, etc. I’m sociable but never have been one to be overly sociable so doing things outside of my norm isn’t what I tend to think about or arrange. I find it interesting that he wants these things for me but when I do have something that I want to do, it inevitably has had its challenges with respect to who will watch the kids. He’s a good dad and usually he watches the kids but if he were to handle things the way he wanted we would go out often and leave the kids with various questionable people, spend too much on babysitting, and party more than I feel is right. I feel it just isn’t fair that he can plan his life how he wants and expect me to take care of the kids. I am happy to spend time with our children – I stayed home 8 years to be with them – but I don’t think one spouse living their life how they want and not caring that they leave the other with the bag is right. Things have gotten better with respect to this issue in the last few years but I was truly beside myself when the kids were real young and he regularly went off to exercise, join a sports team, or go drinking and thought nothing of me staying home with the kids – “that’s what good moms do”. I made it through those years but not without the scars. When I decided to go back to work, he went from being supportive (he always talked about me going back to work) to listing off all the reasons why it probably wasn’t going to work out. That was so frustrating but I stuck to my guns and things worked out. He got through it and probably wouldn’t even remember being unsupportive. I am rebuilding my confidence level and my job has been a large reason why.

    Like you, I too, have resorted to passive aggressive behavior back at him. It is sooo not me and is hard to be that way with respect to my personal integrity comfort level. I have done this as a means of trying to get him to see what it feels like but it has not been productive at all. He just doesn’t get it. Like you, I too, have chosen avoidance for survival. How can I have even a normal conversation when the slightest thing will set off yet another inappropriate comment or downright rude reaction from him? Then to add insult to injury, he will say I just like to pick fights and I was somehow to blame. My husband will often use the blame game. It could be as simple as telling the kids that “your mommy said you have to go to bed now so talk to her” when I had just given him my reasons why they should go to bed and he agreed. He doesn’t know how to take mature responsibility for his actions. I’ve clearly spoken with him about these situations and explained that if he agrees to something then there should be no blaming later or if a new decision must be made, he should say “we decided …”. Even when I clearly assert myself and show how things should look, he just thinks that my feelings are a reflection of over-sensitivity. He feels other women would not feel the same way I do. Everyone says being assertive is important. Sometimes I wonder where the assertive boundaries should be with him: If I am silent now, was that a missed opportunity at being assertive? If I’m assertive, was that a time I should’ve just been silent? I am tired of fighting but I’m also tired of being walked all over too!

    I don’t know if your husband is this way but mine has rarely said he was sorry. He has excuses why whatever he did was right or justified. I have been quite assertive in sharing how his behavior/comments has hurt my feelings but to no avail. He hears it all right but acts as if it doesn’t matter that my feelings are hurt. It has made me feel like I’m going crazy. I think to myself, any normal person would understand that what you did was not right – any normal person that truly loves the other would say they were sorry for hurting them and try to come up with how they can mend things. Instead, he just avoids me for a while (minutes, hours, days – it depends) and then acts as if nothing is wrong. He expects me to just pick up with our relationship like all is well again. I can’t trust him with my emotional well-being. I heard the term “emotionally divorced” a few years ago and this is definitely true of my marriage – I have felt that way for many years now.

    Is there something your therapist has shared with you that is helpful in dealing with your husband’s behavior or is it simply that you are validated?

    Good luck to you too.

  • tired-of-it

    Hi,

    i just am learning the “song and dance” that prelude’s hubby’s pa…. i didn’t show any emotion, didn’t break what i was doing, which in this case was eating dinner…. and he assumed that i was burnt out on classes…. do i let him believe that? do i even respond to his assumptions? i’m so tired of the song and dance, he says he’s trying but doesn’t produce… i’m looking for work so i can have the money if this whole thing goes south and can support myself… i’ve been thru therapy before for a similar issue with my first husband… the 2nd one however behaved according to him as how he “thought” i wanted him to behave… go figure… at any rate, how do you respond to the assumptions…?

  • Confused

    Hi NewlyAware,

    Things have been quiet here lately which is not unusual. The problem with that is when it’s like that I tend to let my guard down. I start to feel comfortable again until KABOOM! Something sets him off. I never know what it’s going to be because it can be ANYTHING. And when my guard is down, I guess I don’t watch what I say as much. Not that I’m saying anything I shouldn’t be but it really doesn’t matter because it’s just a matter of time before he finds something that will cause him to explode. At this point, I know that it’s not my fault but he always manages to make me feel like it is. I’m starting to get on edge now because it’s over 2 weeks of quiet, and the longer the quiet goes – the worse the explosion. I know he needs therapy for his issues. Not just marriage counseling but one-on-one counseling for whatever it is that’s going on with him that he doesn’t share with me. The problem is that HE doesn’t agree with that. I think he’s afraid of the therapist being honest with him and pointing out his flaws. It’s a self-esteem thing. I have begged him to go for help but he just says he doesn’t need it. I will try to think positive and hope that it won’t happen again. I understand that positive thinking is a great tool. I have always tried to be positive and hopeful about it. The problem is that every time it happens, it’s more and more disappointing and hurtful. It’s just so hard dealing with a man like this.

  • http://www.creativeconflicts.com Nora Femenia

    Received this comment via Skype from a woman like you:

    Hi Nora,

    You helped with a lot of advice some months ago. I want to update you with what has happened since I last spoke to you. My boyfriend Colin finally completly committed to me. Although he had been a workaholic he has now made me NO.1 .. Amazing! He puts me first all of the time. He is still very busy but he has completely taken me into his life and I work alongside him… He will drop everything if he sees that I am needing him in some way.

    I left Colin for 3 months and in this time period we continued to text each other as neither one of us could let go. Finally my close friend Hank became closer and I told Colin that I had finally found someone else, this news drove Colin to distraction , he weeped uncontrollably and promised me the earth… I still spent 2 weeks thinking about this as he had let me down before.

    Finally Colin and I got back together and we have been together since January and we love each other very much. thank you for all of your advice.

    Sandra

  • http://www.creativeconflicts.com Nora Femenia

    Sandra, great news! I’m happy that you got to the point where he
    puts you first; that is the real basis for any good relationship…enjoy and keep doing what works with him.

  • susanne wells

    I have been with my PA for 26 years too. We are in therapy counselling now. I have only really discovered the issue in the past 5 years. I’m exhausted and ready for change. I’m crying because I am at the beginning of the stages of accepting this behaivor, and I’m now ready to learn how to handle it appropriately. I have not handled it good. I have realized I have made situations worse at times because I didn’t accept his behavior…controlling him back at times…to get the results I needed…which only made matters worse. It’s lonely knowing this now, but I am truly ready to stop and focus on my self esteem and confidence, and learn to love myself more. It’s so hard because when he communicates with me, I am very sad because it’s from “his head” and “fixing”…my challenge is to not fight back out of my need for a good connection.

  • http://www.creativeconflicts.com Neil Warner

    Dear Susanne,
    thanks for connecting here! I know that this is a sad time for you, coming to grips with the root of your situation. As you know, I support the perspective that his behavior has been shaped in childhood, he considers it “normal” and can’t see the huge gap between his way of connecting and the real needs of an emotionally engaging relationship. He is not there, not because he doesn’t want, but because he can’t. I know that accepting this fact (you married an emotionally crippled individual) is very depressing…but at least you don’t spend energy in trying to teach him what a loving husband is…Of course, with a serious effort, he could begin to retrain his brain to allow emotions to flow…but nobody can do it for him. He could be receiving some retraining help so he can identify when his emotions are blocked, and accept them and let them flow…Alone, he can’t. You are just on target, educating yourself to not fight back, out of your need for a good connection! So, it is wonderful that you are going to use your own energies to re-discover who are you, what do you need to accomplish in this life, and how to live every day with peace and self-love, regardless of your marital situation. Wishing you a satisfactory trip into discovering in how many ways you can make yourself happy….best wishes.

  • Lucille2

    I discovered my husband had an affair
    nearly 7 months ago–He and I immediately went to counseling , he couldn’t do
    enough for me, but 2 of our daughters cut him completely out of their life. He
    moved to the basement and I have continued to live upstairs. I tried to go out
    with him in hopes he would come clean which he still hasn’t. He is even saying
    now to one of our daughters that he didn’t have an affair which is absurd
    because I have more than enough proof. About 2 months after doing much research,
    I discovered he has a covert aggressive personality. I always knew he thought
    differently but I thought it was just him. After I heard him tell my daughter
    about 4 weeks ago that he did not have an affair, I stopped contact with him
    unless absolutely necessary. From the very beginning he told me he would fix our
    family but he hasn’t. I am miserable. He works and comes home and there are no
    calls on his cell phone. He tells us we never appreciated anything he did which
    was only material things which we do appreciate, but his dishonesty and all his
    lies has us devastated. Books and the internet say these type people have to recognize they have a problem
    like alcoholics, etc. I have been married for 26 years and I feel like a
    stranger has been living with me. I still love him and don’t know why. We don’t
    seem even important enough for him to attempt any kind of honesty or change. I
    have prayed all my life with him and things have gotten worse.

    When I told him I no longer wanted
    contact with him I also told him what I expected from him to remain married to
    him–still no comment. I wake up every morning (if I sleep) with all of this on
    my mind and my mind cannot get any peace. I don’t want a divorce but I don’t
    want to enable his dishonesty and the question in my mind if we meant anything
    at all. I would do anything to make my family a family again but I can’t do it
    alone. Any suggestions or help would be appreciated.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=702462366 Terry Graves

    The Silent Marriage Saved My Marriage and My Sanity

    My husband breaks his promises, puts things off, is taciturn, occasionally gives me the silent treatment, and refuses to have sex with me. At my wit’s end, I was told by
    a marriage counselor that my husband has passive-aggressive personality
    disorder, or PAPD, a deformation of character.

    Hearing an actual diagnosis should have been a relief, as with a diagnosis one would expect a treatment. Unfortunately, that was not the case. Finding sensible advice was impossible, and I lived in despair for years searching in vain for answers and spent years nagging and appealing to my husband for fairness. Then I came across
    a blog and a series of small tomes by Dr. Nora Femenia. I wholeheartedly recommend reading all of Dr. Femenia’s books, in particular, The Silent Marriage. In it, Dr. Femenia suggests strategies that will restore dignity to both partners. The most important, I felt, is to think of the passive aggressive as “a wounded, cornered animal” and to treat him well.

    Since passive-aggression has its roots in severe psychological abuse in childhood, using a tender touch with a passive-aggressive husband will afford him a measure (perhaps his first measure) of safety and security. This and other tactics recommended by Dr. Femenia will not cure the passive-aggressive, but it will make a relationship with him easier and less contentious.

    A caveat: The Silent Marriage is for the passive aggressive’s partner. Dr. Femenia’s “Stop Your Passive Aggression” (http://norafemenia.com/books/stop-your-passive-aggression/) is geared toward the husband. I have not read this book so I cannot speak to it but, but it seems obvious to me that regardless of how much better a relationship can get when a wife follows Dr. Femenia’s advice, it is still critical that the passive aggressive gets help for himself.

    A second caveat: there are two books on passive-aggression geared toward the layman that, I believe, are bound to cause more harm than good. One was written by a member of the U.S. Congress and purloins large tracts from other authors; the second is by a psychologist attached to a reputable teaching hospital in New York. Both books recommend that a wife behave like a therapist, suffer in silence, and manipulate the passive aggressive. Do not bother with these books: they are useless garbage.

    Then there are various books by Theodore Million, the world’s
    foremost expert on personality disorders, some of which contained bits of
    information on PAPD. Unfortunately the most recent tomes leave the malady out altogether, since the committee that writes the various iterations of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual no longer included PAPD among the illnesses it recognizes.

    Dr. Femenia recommends compassion and dignity. The minute I started applying these, my marriage went from miserable to bearable, then to even pleasurable at times. If your husband suffers from PAPD, whether he enters serious treatment or not, Dr. Femenia’s suggestions and explanations will make it possible for your marriage to change for the
    better. Even if you are the only person whose behavior changes, you will be happier.

  • stressed wife

    Just celebrated (not) my 15th wedding anniversary with my pa hubby. Finances won’t let me leave, that would be the best and it’s my dream to get away from this man the minute I can afford to. I’ve started a new career and it’s slow going, I’m building my clientele, and in time it should prove to be a good business. I understand that things will never change with him and he never really gave a damn about me anyway. He still dishes out emotional abuse on a daily basis. Whenever I feel good he can’t stand it and does whatever he can to bring me down. I have to admit he did do something nice today. He is not attending a family (my side of the family) wedding this summer. I sent the rsvp card back today indicating that it will be my daughter and myself. If he went, all he would do is get drunk, make a jackass out of himself, then demand to leave early, ruining it for me. I was relieved when he told me he didn’t want to go. This whole scenario is so sad, he really had me convinced he was a good guy and we’d be together forever. The only real problem I’ve having right now is my weight. I need to lose about 30 lbs and can’t seem to stick to a plan of action. I feel scattered, stressed, and just plain lonely. I keep reading that stress keeps weight on, but how can I eliminate that when I have to stay with this man? If he left, we’d be living on the street in no time. I have a teen daughter and can’t let that happen. He threatened to leave a few days before our anniversary and I was a wreck. I’d appreciate any advice from someone who has been where I am. Thank you.

  • Justwondering

    While everything I read indicates that P-A is typically diagnosed in men. Why is it not equally diagnosed between men and women?